The Northern California Fly Fishing Board

Bjorn wrote:

I made a mistake in using the guide's name and I felt bad about that in retrospect. But the rest of it, just total bullshit and how the treat anyone new.

Actually I think you made more then one mistake as they pointed out. Here's a list I compiled from the thread along with some comments.

1. You bad mouthed a guide(and named him)and then asked the folks to give you some info.

That made you look very unappreciative as well as lazy. Too lazy to do the work yourself and eager to beat someone up if the info isn't to your liking.

2. You asked complete strangers for this secret info.

Remember, you don't even know those people and don't contribute to their site but you want directions to their honey water in the Bahamas? Since you don't fish there you don't have any real feelings for the place one way or another. People that fish there on a regular basis probably do. What if someone that's never contributed to this board was to stop by and ask for your best spots on the Mac or Upper Sac?

3. "Pretty clear I won't get much useful advice here"

That's a quote from you very early on. It shows that you were only using them for info and implies that the place has little value in your mind because they didn't wait on you hand and foot. It makes it look like you think that place as some sort of obligation to help you out. Remember, you don't know these people, you haven't contributed to their site, you're stealing from them, you're bad mouthing a guide and asking for free info and now you're complaining about the service????

4. You posted without getting a feel for the place first.

That's just plain common sense. That's like walking into a bar and talking trash about motorcycles before you look around and see that you're in a biker bar.

5. You posted a link to your blog in your profile.

First off, blogs are stupid. The people that start them usually don't have a clue what the hell they're talking about and your blog is a perfect example. You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground about bonefish and yet you have this whole spot dedicated to telling people how to do it??

6. You took pictures and reports from that site without asking anyone.

What's worse is that when they let you know that they were unhappy about it you pretty much told them that if they didn't like it they shouldn't have put them on the Internet. First off, taking something without asking is impolite. You should have learned that as a child. But you took it a step further. You basic told them you were entitled to it because they weren't guarding it well enough. There point seemed to be completely lost on you. They even directed you to some pics on your blog that had copyright info on the bottom that said they can't be used without permission. You didn't even take that off the picture.

I hope this helped..

Thanks for chiming in.

1. At the time, I felt like the guy was trying to scam people, listing one price and charging another. That pissed me off. If someone listed a rod for $300 and then charged you $400, you might not like that so much. Now, I don't think he was trying to scam... he's just not able to change his website. I've offered to build him a new website with updated information for free. The guide/outfitter contacted me, said he agreed the site was misleading and offered me the original, listed price.

2. Secret info... right...

People do ask me for sites on the McCloud and the Upper Sac... and I tell them. I don't buy into the whole "secret spot" thing for a moment. Fewer people are fishing now than 5 years ago and than 10 years ago. Sure, everyone shows up on the Trinity, but all that means is that some other water has fewer folks. There are people that buy into the secret idea. I don't. It is a philosophical difference.

3. I was looking for info... that isn't how they roll. I was up-front about it.

4. True... I like the magazine, thought the board would have anglers with a depth and breadth of experience and message boards are often where people go to get advice and to share their experiences. It turns out the Drake is not so hot on the first part of that. I walked in ignorant of that and, I'd say, paid the price.

5. I actually didn't have my blog listed anywhere.... not my profile or signature. They found that in about 5 minutes though, posted it and the rest is history.

6. I posted a link to the thread about the Bahamas back on the Drake's site. I didn't take the thread and re-print it. The guy was pissed because the Drake post has pictures of his dad. He put the pictures of his dad on that site... a site that gets thousands and thousands of hits and then complained that I linked to it (his dad's pic wasn't on my site)... my site that gets very little traffic. That is just a mock complaint. That's just being angry to be angry. It is hollow and doesn't stand up to more than about a minute of critical thinking.

As for the F&S article with the copyright... I've asked them if I could use it, they have not responded, probably because they could give two dumps about it and probably also because they know that the whole notion of Fair Use gives me a pretty clear line to use the material in the way I did. A little tour through Wikipedia should wrap that up for you. I ask for permission when I can... like with the piece from the New York Times, I actually talked to the author, as I did with Charles Rangley-Wilson and lots and lots of others.

To say I'm stealing anything is not true. You may think it is unethical to use published material that way, but that is your personal perspective, not a legal truth and not a perspective shared by all. Some people think split shot is unethical, some say jigs are.

Hope that helps.

Merry Christmas.

If you really are looking for information on Bonefish in FL,

Geez, you don't think this whole thread was a set up do you? From the looks of that Drake forum, I'd have to say you jumped in to the deep end of the pool without your water wings. Figure out yet which one is Slo?

If that kind of assualt took place on the streets it'd be a felony.

FTIR

Well then, I guess everyone over there is wrong and you are right Bjorn. What are the chances of that I wonder? You didn't do anything wrong, it was all them. You can spin however you want but it's there for everyone to see.

I did several things wrong and I've admitted to them.
1. I named the guide. I think I was pretty clear about being sorry about that and when to some lengths to atone for that.

2. I also waded in and asked a question in a place where that isn't the protocol. Total mistake on my part. That was never going to go well, blog or no blog.

The first mistake, obviously worse than the second.

The stealing charge is off though. Not exactly like folks were looking at anything objectively there. Just trying to be as offensive as possible and to tear down anything about me that was there to tear down. They crap on new people and see how they take it, that's how things work, as even they admit.

I may be a hack... the blog is a hobby, not a job. There are a lot of really crappy blogs out there and mine may be one of them. I enjoy it. I may not be creating new content and I may not be adding to the industry, but I'm not trying to. I'm having fun with my little blog, finding stories that interest me and putting them into one place, be it crab flies or New Caledonia. In the process I'm also meeting new people that are interested in the topic like I am.

Bjorn,

When Bruce stops posting, you seem to fill the void thats left behind.

First off, you are too thin skinned. Then you pirate a thread on bone fishing here and the thread becomes "All about me". Its funny that you get treated similarly on other sites. Does this mean your reputation precedes you on other sites as well?


Don't look at this as kicking you while you are down. This is a pretty funny thread- something that hasn't happened here for awhile. At least Blanton's board treats you fairly with kid gloves.


As for your blog, don't quit your day job. Oh, wait, you already did that. For god's sake, don't home school, whatever you do. Good thing its a hobby, as you had clearly stated earlier. If you can't stand the hazing here, consider becoming a regular at the Drake and grow some skin.

Have to say, I have never been to the Drake Forum Page, only read the Magazine, till today. The Bjorn thread WAS kinda weird. But the Unlimited Thong Thread could make me a fan. Not sure what it has to do with fly fishing, but who cares!

Rough crowd
My buddy Hodad would have loved that.

Who knows, maybe he did.

Wow, rough crowd over there at the Drake. Does remind me of this Board occasioanlly, on a bad day.

Thanks Sarge, that was refreshing!

That site almost makes me want to bust out the gear and do a little tying and fishing.

MN

Nice tube shot Mike! Nothing like a little ab and fresh fish, is there? You'd fit right in to our annual memorial trip the third weekend in June. Charlie has found a way to join us these past three years, & Patti's cobbler is a hit too.
FTIR

"Wow, rough crowd over there at the Drake. Does remind me of this Board occasioanlly, on a bad day."

Yeah, before the PC crowd took this place over. The Drake has more life in one of their threads than all of this Bored's combined. One Drake thread alone has over a hundred pages of posts...pages, not comments...some of us miss those "bad day(s)".
FTIR