The Northern California Fly Fishing Board

bjorn - don't take any sh&t for supporting PATAGONIA - you're totally right with them - i'm a big supporter of them, not only for what they support, but because they make very high quality products and stand behind them, 100% no matter what - by far the best i've ever patronized. others i support (again for their product and corporate qualities) would be WINSTON, COSTA DEL MAR, and TIBOR (Ted Juracsik Tool and Die).

Bjorn wrote:
Jeez... I didn't figure I'd catch a bunch of flack for supporting Patagonia. They give millions every year, they support so many little, local efforts all over the country. Yvon founded 1% for the Planet. Patagonia has put all sorts of sustainability into their production chain. I think folks should look around their website about everything they actually DO. It is very easy to say you have a certain position, or to say you support a cause, but Patagonia doesn't just support a cause, they put resources behind it. They walk the walk.

B-

Bjore, I was not referring to you and or Patagonia specifically. It just appears that the underlying theme in this marketing plan is that the more we sell of our product the better we can make other things... which on the face of it is bogus. I mean it could be argued, with a fair amount of validity, that Chevron "walks the walk" if we use monies contributed to a b and c as a benchmark.

Bjorn wrote:
...Patagonia gave something like $466K in the area of water/river funding last year including grants to Cal Trout...B-

Which is one of the reasons why I do NOT support them.

So I manufacture, distribute, and sell a product...and it may be a great product,

I develop a plan to donate...let's say, 1% of profits to X (fill in name of worthy endeavor)...so then I increase the sale price of the product by 3%, make a greater profit (which is the point of being in business), customers believe that by supporting my business, they are assisting X (fill in name of worthy endeavor) and those customers will use their influence on other potential customers to support my product to assist X (fill in name of worthy endeavor), and while the worthy endeavor is supported, I have additional resources (from the greater profit) to travel, climb, bicycle, fish, lecture (with 1% of my fees going to X), and being described by those who may benefit from my donations as someone who walks the walk...

"I love it when a plan comes together!"
...Hannbal Smith

Paul

If you think money to Cal Trout is anti-trout, well, I guess we don't have much common ground. I think they are great. I give them money and I sent letters when they ask me to.

B-

Fill me in...what is the beef with Cal Trout? I have never heard much negative about them....I am curious.

bjorn - you always put the best posts up - i love when you drive everyone into a tizzy - the simple reality is businesses are in business to make profits - plain and simple (except of course for non-profits). they are not obliged to give anything back to anyone - and most don't. on one end, you have some great companies that are very altruistic and really forgo their own profitability in order to help the greater good - but those are few and far between and most don't last very long - in fact, i can't think of any by name at the moment. on the other end are the exxon/mobil's of the world that know they have you by the nads, charge whatever they want, and dump all over the world in the process (don't get me wrong, i love gas, drive a huge truck, and see it as a necessary evil i am fortunate enough to afford).

if patagonia wants to raise their prices in order to justify giving more money to causes they deem to be important, than good for them. and if they want to use that fact as a core component of their sales and marketing effort, then more power to them. no one is obliged to buy their stuff if they don't want. and anyone can go stand in front of their stores with picket signs and protest their support of cal trout because they don't like cal trout for some reason. there are plenty of other places to get fleece, wool, and gortex. hell, go to walmart and buy fleece from someone who doesn't market themselves as an environmentalist - that oughtta surely save the world.

(ok, i'm ducking)

pgw wrote:
So I manufacture, distribute, and sell a product...and it may be a great product,

I develop a plan to donate...let's say, 1% of profits to X (fill in name of worthy endeavor)...so then I increase the sale price of the product by 3%, make a greater profit (which is the point of being in business), customers believe that by supporting my business, they are assisting X (fill in name of worthy endeavor) and those customers will use their influence on other potential customers to support my product to assist X (fill in name of worthy endeavor), and while the worthy endeavor is supported, I have additional resources (from the greater profit) to travel, climb, bicycle, fish, lecture (with 1% of my fees going to X), and being described by those who may benefit from my donations as someone who walks the walk...

"I love it when a plan comes together!"
...Hannbal Smith

Paul

Oh it's a great plan Paul, one that has tremendous amount of merit within a capitalist framework. I object when people try and paint it as some form of environmental moral ethic.

I do seem to get folks going, don't I? I thought I'd hear about the companies that folks had a soft spot for... instead we have folks talking about the Boy Scouts and PETA and corporate greed... man...

I work in the nonprofit sector, but there is no nonprofit sector without a for-profit sector. Folks have to make money in order to support the work of the nonprofit sector. The alternative is called Socialism or Communism, where the government does everything and individuals don't really play an active role in supporting causes or providing services. Philanthropy is a great American tradition... a very conservative notion, I'd add. Americans pull money from their own pockets to support the issues and causes that matter to them. They feed people, shelter people, educated people, support their churches and so much more. You want to support the Boy Scouts, do it. I won't... my brother is a former eagle scout but now is barred from participating because he's gay and that bunches my panties... but that's my decision. I like trout and rivers, so I support Cal Trout and Friends of the River. We don't get federal or state money to do our work, we get money from people with interests and passions aligned with our own.

In a country like ours, if you don't support causes and issues that you care about it means that less action is taken on those very issues.

And that, is my lecture on how the great American tradition of philanthropy works. Please form an orderly line to tell me how wrong I am. Thanks.

B-

because you wear panties, you are now banned from the boy scouts too

Well, I wasn't a very good Boy Scout anyway... but true, panties didn't help.

no/msg