Dries (User)
Senior Poster
Posts: 53
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You guys are cracking me up!!! 17 Years, 4 Months ago
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Were you really not here when this all came out and was "discussed" on the board? When our own Baiocchi and Troutnut got involved insanely spending time and money to fight this? When CalTrout defined the NFF a dead fishery and signed? When C.K. of caltrout came to a bash and actually told us that maybe yes... they did a mistake? Heck! Even skirt tried to jump on the wagon at a certain point (way to late... but hey...).
Were you really not here then? 'cause I sure remember some of these board names, then again, maybe back then you weren't making a living out of those issues or just plain didn't care because it didn't touch your waters.
Y'all have a nice day.
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Dawn (Admin)
Admin
Posts: 494
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Re:It's a damn shame 17 Years, 4 Months ago
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I have read a little of this thread. I don't have a lot of time right now, so I couldn't read all of it, but I wanted to make a quick comment on the North Fork Feather. I would encourage anyone who wants to see for themselves what the adaptive management part of the Rock Creek-Cresta Settlement Agreement is bringing about to come participate in the Rock Creek-Cresta Ecological Resources Committee (ERC) meetings. They are open to the public. You can email me for more information if you like. See for yourselves what is going on now. California Sportsfishing Protection Alliance is very much involved in the Rock Creek-Cresta ERC, and I am sure their representative would be happy to talk to you about the current issues as well (On this river and other dam relicensings). Definitely go out with Troutdale too, to see the river itself and hear his perspective. I would love to see more people involved in river issues, especially with the North Fork Feather, and especially in regards to dam relicensings.
I will be super busy the next couple of weeks, so I won't be able to participate much more in this conversation until then.
Dawn
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You never step in the same river twice.
~Heraclitus
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Re:It's a damn shame 17 Years, 4 Months ago
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Bjorn wrote:
Now, I'm not a biologist, but that report seemed to be a pretty far cry from a condemnation of recretional pulse flows. We do have some biologist type people on here, I'd love to hear their take on the report.
The Shepherd is of course, a literal expert on all things scientific. The Shepherd shall analyze this report and give a complete synopsis of this document.
The Shepherd
*** Disclaimer ***
As the original poster of this message, the Shepherd does not condone, advocate or endorse, the deletion or purposeful alteration of this message. Should any of this forum's Hitlerators feel the need to alter this message, there is a high probability that the right foot of the Shepherd, and the ass of the said offending Hitlerator will be involved in multiple, repeated, high speed collisions until the scrotbag of said offending Hilterator falls off. Everything is better in moderation, particularly moderation.
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Isonychia velma 17 Years, 4 Months ago
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I'm at work, so I cannot check my bug books for the correct taxonomy nor can I read the report until I get home tonight; but did the report list any Velma Mays in the data? Or are have they been, for all intents and purposes, completely wiped out by the out-of-season pulse flows?
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Last Edit: 2008/12/02 08:05 By oldtrout.
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"Rivers course through my dreams, rivers cold and fast, rivers well-known and rivers nameless, rivers that seem like ribbons of blue water twisting through wide valleys, narrow rivers folded in layers of darkening shadow, rivers that have eroded down deep in a mountain's belly, sculpted the land, peeled back the planet's history exposing the texture of time itself."
— Harry Middleton (Rivers of Memory)
"Each night as I haul myself onto the back of county garbage truck no. 2, there is a familiar wind, some thread of moonglow or starlight, a splatter of dark rain on my skin, something that stirs my memory, and again, if even for a brief moment, I am on some mountain river, some stretch of bright water, full of possibilities, including the possibility of trout, perhaps one that, when hooked, will haul me in and out of time, in and out of life's mysterious and frightening, wondrous and incomprehensible continuum, even to the edges of the universe." -- Harry Middleton
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Bjorn (User)
Platinum Poster!
Posts: 517
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Once again and true to form, we are off topic 17 Years, 4 Months ago
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This all started out as a post about the McCloud. The forces of good need to gather in numbers to stand up for that beautiful river. That is what Cal Trout was asking for, among others. Once again, this has turned into an argument about the NFF and what happened there.
The McCloud. Focus people... focus. The Lower McCloud specifically.
Ash Camp, Ah Di Nah, TNC. Cold water, rainbows, browns. More Poison Oak than you ever would want to see in your lifetime.
Redbands. The Egg Drop in the Fall. Beautiful canyon. Great trails, great wading. Indian Rhubarb (sp?). Black Bear, Mountain Lions.
The McCloud.
A regulated river. A license up for renewal and re-negotiation.
Let's cut the crap about the NFF for a while. We can argue about that in some other threads that we can start just for that very purpose. We can fling mud devoid of whatever kind of mayfly you'd like and argue about what the Garcia Report says and clearly doesn't say. In the context of the McCloud, these arguments aren't really productive.
In the meantime, line up behind whatever river/fish nonprofit you'd prefer (there are other groups beyond CT, FOR isn't really one of them) to line up behind and get ready to make some noise.
B-
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Re:Once again and true to form, we are off topic 17 Years, 4 Months ago
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Bjorn wrote:
In the context of the McCloud, these arguments aren't really productive.
B-
Wow, I couldn't disagree more with that statement. History is prologue.
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Last Edit: 2008/12/02 09:21 By oldtrout.
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"Rivers course through my dreams, rivers cold and fast, rivers well-known and rivers nameless, rivers that seem like ribbons of blue water twisting through wide valleys, narrow rivers folded in layers of darkening shadow, rivers that have eroded down deep in a mountain's belly, sculpted the land, peeled back the planet's history exposing the texture of time itself."
— Harry Middleton (Rivers of Memory)
"Each night as I haul myself onto the back of county garbage truck no. 2, there is a familiar wind, some thread of moonglow or starlight, a splatter of dark rain on my skin, something that stirs my memory, and again, if even for a brief moment, I am on some mountain river, some stretch of bright water, full of possibilities, including the possibility of trout, perhaps one that, when hooked, will haul me in and out of time, in and out of life's mysterious and frightening, wondrous and incomprehensible continuum, even to the edges of the universe." -- Harry Middleton
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Bjorn (User)
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Posts: 517
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Re:Once again and true to form, we are off topic 17 Years, 4 Months ago
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I'll put your disagreeing with me up there on the list of "not surprising things."
The McCloud. Focus... the McCloud...
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Re:Once again and true to form, we are off topic 17 Years, 4 Months ago
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And I'll put your disregard for precedent up there on the list of "baffling things."
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"Rivers course through my dreams, rivers cold and fast, rivers well-known and rivers nameless, rivers that seem like ribbons of blue water twisting through wide valleys, narrow rivers folded in layers of darkening shadow, rivers that have eroded down deep in a mountain's belly, sculpted the land, peeled back the planet's history exposing the texture of time itself."
— Harry Middleton (Rivers of Memory)
"Each night as I haul myself onto the back of county garbage truck no. 2, there is a familiar wind, some thread of moonglow or starlight, a splatter of dark rain on my skin, something that stirs my memory, and again, if even for a brief moment, I am on some mountain river, some stretch of bright water, full of possibilities, including the possibility of trout, perhaps one that, when hooked, will haul me in and out of time, in and out of life's mysterious and frightening, wondrous and incomprehensible continuum, even to the edges of the universe." -- Harry Middleton
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Ralph (User)
Senior Poster
Posts: 53
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Re:Isonychia velma 17 Years, 4 Months ago
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The Garcia report does not list Isonychia, Paraleptophlebia or Discosmoecus . . . curiously and coincidently all insects that have adapted to fall emergence. All these insects have "anecdotally" been prevalent on the pulse flow stretch and are now largely absent. Your question has historical significance and anyone who claims history is no indicator of the future hasn't learned from history. (My favorite oft-repeated line from the current administration has been, "Let's not dwell on past mistakes but move forward"  . Somehow you get a pass by not using 20-20 hindsight.
I am working on the Yuba FERC process at the moment and we (SYRCL) are using the (historical) flawed process on the NFF to NOT repeat their mistakes and are biomonitor the crap out of our system. AWA did some test pulse discharges on Canyon Creek in September and Dicosmoecus and Isonychia went missing, while other nearby creeks had bumper hatches. SYRCL will now have a biomonitoring site on Canyon Creek.
I rarely have much to say about Cal-Trout but after a long interlude did renew my membership after they published their SOS state of the salmonid report (download it from their site). It is an extremely important document and no matter what your feelings about the organization, they deserve big kudos for this project.
Ralph |
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Bjorn (User)
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Posts: 517
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Re:Once again and true to form, we are off topic 17 Years, 4 Months ago
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Are you really going to say that the final accounting is:
CT Successes/positives = 0
CT Shortcomings/failures = 1
Count me as baffled as well.
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Re:Once again and true to form, we are off topic 17 Years, 4 Months ago
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Bjorn wrote:
Are you really going to say that the final accounting is:
CT Successes/positives = 0
CT Shortcomings/failures = 1
Count me as baffled as well.
I never said that, in fact, I said this:
"Since then, Cal Trout has sent several request for donations to me each year by snail mail and by e-mail. Now I know that Cal Trout does some good work, so I've replied to their requests by mail, by e-mail, and even by telephone asking for an apology for their action re: N.F. Feather. A simple apology would bring me back into the fold, so to speak. Heck, we all make mistakes.
Screw 'em.
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Last Edit: 2008/12/02 17:45 By oldtrout.
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"Rivers course through my dreams, rivers cold and fast, rivers well-known and rivers nameless, rivers that seem like ribbons of blue water twisting through wide valleys, narrow rivers folded in layers of darkening shadow, rivers that have eroded down deep in a mountain's belly, sculpted the land, peeled back the planet's history exposing the texture of time itself."
— Harry Middleton (Rivers of Memory)
"Each night as I haul myself onto the back of county garbage truck no. 2, there is a familiar wind, some thread of moonglow or starlight, a splatter of dark rain on my skin, something that stirs my memory, and again, if even for a brief moment, I am on some mountain river, some stretch of bright water, full of possibilities, including the possibility of trout, perhaps one that, when hooked, will haul me in and out of time, in and out of life's mysterious and frightening, wondrous and incomprehensible continuum, even to the edges of the universe." -- Harry Middleton
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