The Northern California Fly Fishing Board

Happy Turkey Day to all!


I am looking to all you for your years of experience and knowledge, even though I’ve been out on the streams for over 20yrs.

I want to tie my own leaders, and with all the brands and materials, I wanted to know for those that do this, what your formulas are. Not in regards to 24” of 01x then 12” of 1x, I found that information, but more so on which materials and brands. I am a teacher, so even though money is a factor, I don’t believe in skimping on leaders and tippets for obvious reasons, (don’t want to buy the lowest quality material for the weakest link in the line).

FYI, There are some interesting excel spreadsheet online you can download, in which you plug in your leader length and down to what size you want to want to fish with, and it gives you the measurements for each section for different dry fly, nymph and streamer lengths, and even the parameter of what size rod you are using.

This is what I have been thinking:

For the bigger stuff, towards the butt section, 07X to 0X I was thinking on mono, but what brand do you guys and gals use for proper stiffness?

For the mid section, 0X to 3x, using fluorocarbon, but a stiffer one, like climax or umpqua.

Then for the end to tippet using something like Frog Hair, which I haven’t used, but I’ve read is strong and very flexible. Which is why I wouldn’t want to use it towards the butts/tag sections, because of a lack of backbone.

If this information has been discussed previously, please point me to those links. The search does not seem to be working with the new site format.

THANKS TO ALL who would like give their input!

Cheers,

Pound

edit: here is the leader calc I was referring to. In the drop down boxes, pick leader length, tippet size and rod wt, the rest will be done for you.

http://glo...er/leadercalc/lc2007.xls

Actually, this is something I would like to know more about myself. I tend to be very lazy when it comes to leaders and tippets, and I should probably put more effort in. I am looking forward to seeing what information folks have to share.

Dawn

Primarily because Maxima has a Leader Kit (http://www.maxima-lines.com/leader.htm), which is what I started with.

Maxima is Mono, but it is specially formulated to have similar "invisibility" properties as flouro. For the very butt section of leader material, I use Maxima Chameleon, and for the rest I use UltraGreen.
Why, you ask? Because that is the formula suggested by Gary Borger in one of his books I read. His argument in favor of this impressed me at the time, but now I have completely forgotten what it was!

In any case, the leaders are excellent and roll over very nicely. You can use whatever tippet material you like, and I do use Frog Hair. I love the stuff.

The properties of both UltraGreen and Chameleon are described here: http://www...-lines.com/lineFrame.htm

My .02, for what it's worth!


Buzz

I did some searching for Borger's reasoning on using Chameleon and ran across this article:

http://www...elhanen.se/eng/10058.htm

It reminded me of the source of my reading, Gary's "Presentation". Great book.

If you read down in the article you will see that Borger has a theory on tippet size reduction between sections of leader material. This is well worth reading as it can greatly reduce the time you spend tying blood knots!


Enjoy,

Buzz

great article...I saved it as a document to my personal file for reference...did you notice that this came from the
Swedish version of Rackelhanen? Somehow that just added to the sense of discovery contained within the article.

I don't build my own leaders...I've done it a few times, but too time
consuming.

That said, the system I am using now is awesome due to a superb product
by Climax. I take a standard 7.5' leader and then tie on a Climax Tippet
Ring (it's just a tiny solid metal ring). Then I tie on the tippet I will
require whether for dry flies or nymphing. I haven't had any issue
whatsoever with the line not turning over.

So for example, I may use a 7.5' 4x leader- then tippet ring- then 5x or
6x (rarely), or for nymphing 3x or 4x flouro. I'll leave that tippet ring
on for a number of fishing outings, maybe cut off a little tippet now and
then and re-tie the ring on.

Be advised, those tippet rings are quite tiny (as you would suspect) and you
will end up losing a few (they come in a 10-pack). This is one of my favorite
products, and such a simplistic idea. Even though the ring is small, you can
also watch it kinda like an indicator when high sticking.

I work for Oracle, so I feel ya on the money thing...how bout we trade salaries
and time worked annually?


Eric

Here are some of my opinions after quite a few years of leader tying
1. Stiffness can be overdone. The butt section of your leader shouldn't be stiffer than the tip of your fly line.
2. Staying with the same brand of leader material throughout your leader (with the possible exception of the tippet) is a good idea for two reasons. First the stiffness will be the same so designing for turnover will be more predictable. Secondly, mixing brands may cause less than optimal knots.
3. That being the case there is no reason the use floro in the mid section of your leader.
4. For most dry fly fishing a leader that stays on the surface will have fewer problems with drag. Floro sinks faster than mono. There really is no advantage to floro in a FLOATING leader.
5. The outstanding break strength of most leader material in this day and age means that buying material based solely on strength is no longer an issue. Use what is convenient for you to buy.

Thanks for all your replies!

Buzz, that was article was a short and to the point, thanks. Although that article had the same info which lead to my post - that the variance between what the label says, and what it is can be a full size different, (i.e a 5x can be a 4x to a 6x, but most likely towards the 4x for the durability). They will also never state the stiffness. Apparently Frog hair actually tends to go the other direction, smaller and limper. The .02 is always worth it!

The obvious answer would be to buy a micrometer (is that what it is called?), and do what Mike pointed out and keep it to the same brand. Mike, have you tested different brands, or are you brand loyal? I’ve just been brand loyal, usually buying Umqua, for no particular reason. The good thing is that my local fly shop carries many brands, but just not in 100 meter spools, so everything is cheaper and convenient from the internet. Gotta love that.

One of the big misconceptions about teaching is the “extra time” we have, especially for the newer teachers. It is a career change for me. What our contract hours state and actual hours are never aligned. Plus for the new crop of teachers, we have to take a lot more classes and jump through more hoops than the veterans who are grandfathered in on many things. They have all kinds of time. So currently I am taking and paying out of pocket for 2 classes at Santa Clara, just to keep my job. (Although we did get a 1.4% pay raise last year! That covered the SCU parking permit ) The time is spent doing our job is just concentrated. A couple of weeks off during summer are definitely fishing conducive! But yes, I do love my job. If you want to switch carriers, it is always an option… or there’s Cisco.

Cheers,
LB

I've used different brands over the years. I currently use Rio because of its availability. There is another way to "economize" on leaders, and save time too. You can buy an Orvis braided leader, or various brands of furled leaders. With the exception of very windy conditions they are IMO superior to mono leaders for trout. They also make excellent indicator nymph leaders. After a season of fishing a furled leader I can say that I still prefer the Orvis braided leader. I'll post more on that some other time. The cost savings from these types of leaders stems from their durability. you should only have to replace them once a season or so, replacing only the tippet as needed. Time is saved from not having to build leaders