The Northern California Fly Fishing Board

I have mixed feelings about Orvis. The only Orvis store I patronized was at Tyson's Corner, VA, when I lived in the East. It was the closest to my home.

I have a Battenkill cane rod that has served me well since 1969. A Battenkill reel is still going smoothly after 30 years. Various other products are of equally high quality. One pair of waders was replaced with no questions asked. No complaints about their products or the service on those products.

I quit patronizing the VA store because of the staff. Most were young and inexperienced, though eager. They knew all the techno-jargon about flex #s and graphite modulus, but they didn't know fishing. Some didn't know a caddis from a mayfly. Fishing reports were always "excellent" in spite of rivers being blown out because of torrential rains. They seemed more interested in selling me a new high-end rod ("this new graphite will make you a better fisherman" or some fancy new clothing so I will look the part. No thanks.

Granted, this was only one store in a very affluent neighborhood. I guess I wasn't an Orvis kind of person.

Good luck.

El Rey

I just bought my first Orvis products - a LA Battenkill reel (No2) and a spare spool. I bought them seperately through the Orvis website. I bought them because I think they look really cool - and they will generally be used for trout fishing. I've heard good things about the reels, but really, their looks are what swayed me to purchase, and the sale price...

Generally when I think of Orvis I think they have that "snob" association...I don't know why that is, other than that they tend to be high priced and they've been around for a long time - and people generally associate them with the "snobby" side of fly fishing (elitist, we're better than you attitude).

However, I've noticed that Orvis tends to back a lot of stream restoration and fish rehab/conservation projects, and I think they are top-notch on customer service.

How are they any different than Patagonia? - which is also high priced, has been around for a long time, supports stream restoration and conservation, yet generally has a much more accepted brand...

I do think that part of it is the "feel" customers get when they walk into a store. Walk into Orvis, and it "feels" a bit "high class" or "snobby"...walk into Patagonia and it "feels" much more laid back and relaxed...that has to do with the attitude of the hired help, the interior design of the store, and the products on display...

Interesting topic - I'd be curious to know what you learn...

CB

Dawn,
There's a difference between an Orvis shop and an Orvis-endorsed shop. An Orvis shop is owned by Orvis and carries Orvis and nothing but; an Orvis-endorsed shop is owned independently and has been vetted by Orvis to sell Orvis products in addition to other brands. In an Orvis shop, the employees get paid by Orvis; it is obviously otherwise in an Orvis-endorsed shop.

There's never any excuse for rudeness or ignoring a customer. One day on Maiden Lane I asked a quietly browsing Japanese fellow if he wanted any help. He said he was just looking around. I let him be after telling him I'd be happy to answer any questions he had. Everyone else pretty much ignored him. After about 15-20 minutes he came up to me and asked for some assistance, and I assured him I'd be happy to help. Turns out he was in SF on a business trip, and had a shopping list as long as my arm from all the guys back at the office in Japan (too expensive to ship the stuff). That was the day I sold half a dozen rods, two of them bamboo, numerous reels, fly lines to go with them, vests, waders, boots, flies, doodads, gizmos and the inevitable handful of zingers. Needless to say, the zingers were on the house. As I said, it never pays to ignore a customer.

Anglerboy

This was the store:

http://www...om/intro.asp?subject=611

Nothing but Orvis. At the time, I had an Orvis reel, a cheaper one, which was all I could afford when I started fly fishing, and I was happy with it. I knew Orvis had a great reputation. I had every intention of picking up an Orvis rod in that Orvis store until I was treated that way--I had the cash in my wallet. If it had been an Orvis-endorsed store, I would have given Orvis a second chance, but since it was a company store, I figured that was the way they ran business.

I think Buzz had it right; they aren't used to seeing people coming right from the field into the shop there in Jackson. I had been living in my truck for months at that time. Even so, I was clean, and I was wearing fishing clothes. I have never been so completely ignored in a store. I am pretty unforgiving when it comes to shoddy costumer service, and ignoring someone because it looks like they can't afford the rods they are fingering is pretty shoddy in my mind. As I said, I haven't bought any Orvis gear since, not even a zinger.

Dawn

Aw, don't blame them, kid. YOU'RE A GIRL!

(Couldn't resist. You have my permission to throttle me during our next creme bruelle, or when you're out-fishing me on the stream.)

woah woah wait a minute..........your thinking of my bro..................do you know where your quote on the bottom of your post came from???

Huh? You're brother is a girl??? Well, Dusty Springfield was one of my favorite singers, many years ago.

I read that little ditty, that I'm temporarily using as my signature, on the NCFFB a few years ago. Don't know who said it. It probably came from someone else, anyhow.

George is a little slow... I'm sorry little guy but someone should've told you not to wrap your umbilical cord around your little neck .
you really need to read the subject of the post... It will make more sense that way

i think the guy from Esquire magazine said the quote, but his name eludes me.

Dustin Revel

Hey George,

I'm not going to wade through all the answers to your question, although I did read a few, so what I write might be a bit repetitive.

IMHO, somewhere along the line, Orvis lost its cool. I like the rods (never owned anything else by Orvis except a zinger) and the flex system. I don't use my Orvis rods much; one is a 2 wt. and the other is the first fly rod I ever owned. Dad bought it for me, and I retired it after he died. I don't ever want to risk breaking it or having it stolen.

Orvis is kind of like Simms, quality, reputation for being expensive, perhaps a bit for the richys. (I don't give a damn. I just bought a Simms raincoat. I'd been wanting one for years, but the price...sheesh!) If, however, your product is BETTER, it should cost more.

Sage is cool. G. Loomis isn't so cool, but I really like the rods. I don't know how these reputations get started. And, I could be wrong. I'm only parroting what I've heard from other fly fishers. What the hell do I know?

Yeah, Dusty, I'm still trying to figure out this conveluted thread thing. Plus, you're right, I'm slow too.

I think that goes back to last year when I was water hauling an extreme bead head fly and whacked myself in the forehead. I ain't been the same since! Yup, yup, yup

Hi,

I've had mostly positive experiences with Orvis.

I do roll my eyes when visiting a "fly-shop" and have to navigate the huge "life-style" area to go in back to find fishing gear But, then again, what do I expect in SF and Palo Alto. Its a good compromise, you have to pay the rent.

The fishing sales people that I've talked to have been very friendly and knowledgeable, and felt very genuine. I felt as I was benefiting from their knowledge rather than being "sold". Definitely keep knowledgeable people in the fishing department.

The mid-arbor battenkill reels seem to be a great value. I bought one for my wife, and liked it so much, I got 2 for me. I haven't had any trouble even with fishing in pyramid and salt-water.

I also have the tailwaters XT waders with integrated boot. The waders developed a leak in the wader-boot seam after 1 season of use. Customer support worked well, Orvis replaced the leaky waders and over-nighted them in time for my next trip. It would have been better to last a few seasons before leaking, but Orvis made it good for me.

Besides retail channel, I also appreciate the catalog, newspaper, and email notices. The Orvis emails are the few commerical emails that I read (Blue Ribbon Flies also). Maybe its a way to appear like I'm working while thinking about fly fishing, but I digress.
One example of the value of the multiple channels, I learned of the tech vest in the catalog and was very interested, but had doubts my camera would fit in the pocket. I brought the camera into the retail store and verified that it fit before purchasing.

Good luck with your project.

John

Hi George,

I just recently completed a business case study for my MBA program, so I have felt your pain in mining information, conducting interviews, and dissecting all the information. I see that you have received quite a bit of good feedback on the customer experience at the retail level, as well as some comments on product quality. One thing I would add that may be useful for your case is a comment on Orvis' product sourcing. I recently looked into buying an Orvis wading jacket, but I was disappointed to find that it is was imported. Given Orvis' prices I expected to find U.S. made goods. While sourcing products from abroad and maintaining a prestige pricing program leads to strong margins, I doubt it is a sustainable business practice as American sentiment towards foreign made products sours (as is beggining to happen with Chinese made toys).

Good luck!