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TOPIC: I Noticed the "Absence" Also

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#11875

NorcalBob (User)

Senior Poster

Posts: 50

I Noticed the "Absence" Also 17 Years, 4 Months ago
I also wondered why those bugs were not listed in the report. Not even mentioned in the "control" stretch. HMMMMMMMMM, very odd!!!! I hope I'm not becoming paranoid as I can't believe Garcia & Assoc would be in cahoots with pulse flow advocates!

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#11877

The_Keeper_of_the_Light (User)

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Posts: 134

Here's Your Summary...... 17 Years, 4 Months ago

1- You ask the more cererbal members of the flock to spend a few hours to read and digest this report, (all 70 pages of it) stating that "I'd love to hear their take on the report".

2- The discussion doesn't seem to be going your way, so you deem discussion of said report, that you initially wanted to here some educated opinion on, "as inappropriately off-topic".

Is that about right?

The Shepherd

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#11881

Bjorn (User)

Platinum Poster!

Posts: 517

Re:Here's Your Summary...... 17 Years, 4 Months ago

Keeper, I'm just trying to re-focus folks on the issue that is ahead of us as opposed to behind us.

You want to talk about the report, fine, let's talk about the report. No one has come up with anything about the report except that it fails to mention the I.V.'s. Beyond that, there has been no discussion of the report. If you read the report and conclude that it says "Pulse flows = bad"... well, it doesn't say that... at all. I was actaully a bit surprised that the impacts they could see were so mild. The term "not statistically significant" crops up a lot. Someone throws out the Garcia Report as if it is a clear condemnation and it basically has no finding of drastic harm. It's weak sauce. It's not enough to put on the table and make any kind of demand.

Now, my degree is in History and International Studies, so I might be missing something... that's why I asked for some of our more scientific folks to chime in. That hasn't really happened. Not even Ralph commented on the Garcia Report's content and he's the buggiest guy the Board has probably ever seen.

I'm not in favor of pulse flows anywhere. Not on the NFF. Not on the McCloud. I didn't make the decision and it was before I came to FOR. I work for an organization that signed on to the agreement that folks are bitterly unhappy with. We tried to get some things that were positives in the agreement like increased base flows (that's a good thing, right?) and the adaptive managment system that would try to adapt the river's managment as negative impacts were indentified. People might not like the result, but I absolutely refute the insinuations about the motivations behind the agreement. People who say CT and FOR are just catering to white water folks have to disregard years and years of history (oh, and remember, history in precursor) and dozens of other data points to arrive at that conclusion. People don't work at these organizations for the fame or the money. People work at these organizations because they believe in the mission. One of the first things I did when I started at FOR was to sit down with our Conservation Director and ask about the NFF relicensing because I knew that it was such a hot topic. I was satisfied from that discussion that FOR had tried to make the best of a difficult situation. He also pointed out that when anglers and boaters are split, the power company usually benefits in the final agreement. That discussion has led me to try and explain our position and what I see as Cal Trout's (they are my competition, but the way) position to try and strengthen the hands of conservation organizations. When anglers are sapping the strength of Cal Trout... well... they are up against enough opposition, they/we don't need to tear down our own institutions. It's not just a little short sighted. It's stupid.

I'm not arguing for pulse flows. I'm arguing that anglers need to be more united behind the institutions that are carrying on the fights for our interests.

Now... I can't waste any more time saying the same stuff over and over again. So, I'm going to unsubscribe from this thread. You want to have a further conversation about this, give me a call. 408-802-6125. If you are going to attack me, post as yourself. Use your name. Your whole persona is weak sauce.

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#11903

Troutdale (User)

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Posts: 85

Re:I Noticed the "Absence" Also 17 Years, 4 Months ago

The Garcia Study did not miss the Isonichia Velmas. They were dead and gone before the report was done. You see, the dicision to allow ww releases were made with no base line data. They voted to allow the releases and then started doing studies a year after much of the damage had already been done.
You still find abundant hatches of Velma Mays in the reaches that have not had ww releases.

The VM's were bumped off on the Pit too during "test flows" one year. I don't know if they have returned.

TD

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#11904

Troutdale (User)

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Posts: 85

Re:Once again and true to form, we are off topic 17 Years, 4 Months ago
Lets see. They screwed us on the NFF They screwed us on the Pit They screwed us on the South Feather. They are trying to screw us on the Yuba BUT they won't screw us on the Mc Cloud. Ok, I could buy that, but I'll have to finish making my payments on the Golden Gate Bridge before I can come up with the money. TD

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#11905

Bjorn (User)

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Posts: 517

Re:It's a damn shame 17 Years, 4 Months ago
The thread is broken. It's pointless to reply. No one can read more than a few words and the last page is broken.

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