The Northern California Fly Fishing Board

Who you callin a little weiner, young un? You should have more respect for your elders, even if they aren't casting giants, and use bobicators!

I don't go to the T to catch fish. I just want to get away from all my ex-wives and chill out someplace where I can put on the airs of being a fisherman, and see the leaves changing.

As to yelling at you across the river, hell, if I knew it was you I'd have thrown rocks in the river to get your attention.

AB,

Thank you for contributing to the economy of California, come again, stay longer, spend more money on goods, services, and other taxable items...& if you violate the law enough, you'll spend more time and add more money to the State coffers.

Thank you on behalf of the state taxpayers and retired public employees.

Paul

So how would you define over fished? If "most of the fish are hatchery" then would that just be when you can't pump enough fake fish into the system? If it is mostly hatchery fish doesn't that prove the fishery is hurting? Perhaps since it is already down we don't feel bad about continuing the abuse???

But you are right, when I said over fished I meant that you couldn't have a reasonable day of fishing on this river. And before you go deeper into semantics, I said fishing, not catching.....

But to your point, wasn't bruce saying something about not finding an open run in 3 different spots at pre-dawn? Sounds pretty crowded to me. What exactly would you call overcrowded?

You should have made an illegal U turn to park correctly in front of friends house.

Hey Bruce,
I hear you about the ticket, it sounds a little chicken shit, but are you mad at the cop or yourself for parking on the wrong side of the street? I got a ticket for that years ago and every time I've done it since I've thought about the possibility of getting a ticket. If it happens again it will still be a little chicken shit but still be my fault too. Know what I mean? I actually park on the wrong side of the road on a pretty regular basis but I do it while working and as long as you are working out of your truck it's ok. As far as pissing on the side of the road, how could the cop see you if you were behind a tree and some bushes? Come on man, you were pissing on the side of the road and a cop happened by. Your fault, just own it and tell the cop you won't do it again. Next time don't be so lazy and walk into the bushes away from the road. As for the Trinity, wasn't it just last season that you were complaining about people posting reports about the Trinity? You and John Kerry are making it tough on us non-flip flop liberals.

I am by no means an expert on the Trinity fishery. I just know that overfished means something different than overcrowded. As far as whether so many hatchery fish means the fishery is hurting, that depends on the management goals of the particular fishery. If it is to get fishermen fish, than I don't think you can say the Trinity fishery is hurting (it is quite successful, hence the crowds). If it is to have a wild steelhead fishery, than yeah, the fishery is probably hurting and the hatchery probably makes it worse. I don't feel bad at all about fishing the Trinity as far as the fish are concerned. If I feel bad about anything about my fishing the Trinity, I feel bad about not keeping my limit of hatchery steelhead every time I fish.

As far as the crowds go, from what I have seen from driving 299 the last 4 weekends is that the crowds that I can see from the road are too much for me to enjoy fishing. However, I also know that there is lots of river I can access, and the crowds encourage me to try to find new spots. Crowds on the Trinity are nothing new, and the last few years, the hot spots on the river are always hard to get pre-dawn. Most steelhead streams in California are as crowded or more crowded than the Trinity. What I would really like to see is more fishermen learn the ethics of rotating through a hole.

I have really enjoyed your's and Bruce's exchange on this thread. It is nice to see people with differing opinions disagree so agreeably. I just had to jump in with my 2 cents. I have seen a lot of arguments over the years saying that because a river was crowded the fish were suffering, when that may not necessarily be the case. Believe me, I won't go any further into semantics! There is no argument that the Trinity is very crowded right now and that a person's fishing experience can suffer for it.

Dawn

I'd forgotten all about calling you a "little weiner". That happens when you get old. I meant that in a friendly way. After our go around last year (I have to say that I admire your spunk and the way you held your ground) I figured we weren't strangers any more.

Like I said over the phone (at least I THINK I said it...remember, memory problems...I was disappointed that we didn't actually get to meet each other.

I'm still hoping to fish with you sometime.

Glad you made it on the board!

Bruce

Dawn, you're ALWAYS right. We discussed this "overfishing" thing last year. I have a new point which I'll share with you...ahem...

I'm bothered by one thing, but then again, from what I've learned maybe I shouldn't be bothered by it.

I don't care a whit about preserving the genetic pool of hatchery fish, although I hate killing steelhead, any steelhead. Just a personal thing. They're so beautiful...

Any fish that is caught can die from the experience. I believe that a fish caught with bait has more of a chance of dying than one caught on a fly.

With the crowds more fish are being caught. It's probable that more wild fish are caught, therefore that more wild fish are dying from that experience. (I'd love to see bait outlawed on the T.)

I've gone to heavier tippets this year (10# Maxima...these fish are NOT leader shy!) and I've upped my rod weight from a 6 wt. to a 7 wt. I'm now able to horse those puppies in faster than last year, which I believe is better for the fish.

There IS however, one fly in the ointment. Last year, the voyeur in me watched T steelies spawning at close range. Some in the group had adipose fins, some did not. I mentioned this to a fisheries biologist I met on the T, and he said that he believed that the "wild" fish we're seeing in the upper T are probably no more than first or second generation, that mom and dad or grandma and grandpa were hatchery fish.

To degenerate into the absurd, I have an answer to the crowding problem on the T. Only Arizonana who pay $100 for their licenses and SH cards should be able to fish that river from 10/15-12/1. I'm certain that when our campfire folks consider this, they'll all agree with me and wonder why they hadn't come up with this solution before.

Oh yeah, and Arizonans should not be allowed to fish the T between 12/1 and the end of the year. Hey, fair is fair.

no/msg

sierratrout wrote:
Hey, those cops have quotas. I say bruce moves here, then we'll all be safe!

Ahem, there are no quotas, only expected levels of self initiated performance...

...maintaining high performance levels isn't too difficult when there are so many folks running around who believe in situational ethics…whatever their situation is, justifies their actions…regardless of whether or not they are violating the law…

Paul

Yo Shawn,

I'm pissed at the cop, of course. I've been driving for 37 years and I've lived in 2 different states during that time (the drugged state and the straight state) and I've NEVER gotten a ticket for something ridiculous like this. I equate this to a jay-walking ticket. We all do it (jaywalking). We don't get ticketed for that. In fact, I think my going across "traffic" in this residential neighborhood, was less dangerous than jaywalking.

I agree with Janet. Next time I'll make an illegal U turn so I can park the right way. I learn from my mistakes. (In AZ, you can make a U turn anywhere, as long as you don't cross a solid line and so long as there's no No U-Turn sign.)

As to The Great Urination Incident, I think the cop stopped because my car was parked in the middle of nowhere and, (oh God, I'd forgotten this part until now) I was parked facing traffic the wrong way. He just mentioned that part before ranting about my plant-watering site choice. I really was hidden, not completely, but I wasn't obvious either. You'd have had to peer through some bushes, really peer, to have seen me.

As to your last point about posting about the T, my post was generic. It was more a story about my fishing trip and the Trinity was the canvas on which I was painting. I gave no success/failure details to entice folks to rush up there. In fact, I thought that my truthful assessment of the crowds might dissuade some folks, who wanted a quiet, solitary fishing experience, from driving hours only to be disappointed.

Now, I had 21 brothers and sisters, and we lived in one room with Mom, Dad, 2 aunts, their 3 husbands and grandma and grandpa, so I don't expect as much from life as many Americans do. I'm just happy to find a solitary place to take a leak!

Arizona Bruce wrote:
Any fish that is caught can die from the experience. I believe that a fish caught with bait has more of a chance of dying than one caught on a fly.

AZ Bruce, what makes you say this? I dont really understand how a fish being hooked with gamagatsu # 4 with a cluster of eggs is any different than a # 6 TMC 2457 with some copperwire and various fur and feathers attached. The only thing I see that incresases probability of death is bait fisherman tend to keep fish more often thus killing them for dinner. As long as we are all using barbless hooks fishing is still fishing.
~Blaine