The Northern California Fly Fishing Board

Out of curiosity, which set up would/do you all prefer? Lets say, for example, you have a new very light 7wt, and you have the choice of going with a slightly lighter spool, which would reduce the overall weight of you rig, but place the fulcrum a few inches up from the cork, or go with a heavier reel, which would increase the overall weight, but would place the fulcrum on the cork, which would give you better leverage while standing in a river, waving a stick.


Pound

The whole fulcrum idea is a myth, IN MY OPINION. But it is a studied opinion.

Consider this:
You have a rod & reel that is so perfectly matched that you can hold it with one finger on the grip and balance it right at the normal point where your index finger goes. Now think about what happens to that "perfect" balance as soon as you get 10' or more of line beyond the tip top. The perfect balance is now gone.

The great Vince Marinaro, in his famous 1976 book, "The Ring of the Rise", wrote about tournament caster R.C. Leonard, who by a wide margin in 1889 broke all distance casting records with a rod and line, but no reel. According to Vince, there can be no such thing as balance in a fly rod simply because there can never be a fixed fulcrum point, as the length of the extended line is always changing.

There are those who disagree with this concept, but I see nothing in physics that nullifies it.

So, to answer your question, always get the lightest reel possible on every setup, from a 2wt to a 12wt.


Buzz

Completely understand… so lets take the “fulcrum” wording out, because as you mentioned, that would move up the rod with more line out. However, I would assume, (since I don’t have the proper gear to test this), the casting characteristics would change throughout the cast, by giving more leverage for pickup, stopping, and forward cast. How much, I don’t know.

Actually, any "leverage" gain would be offset by the extra weight your arm needs to move with every cast, becuase there is no real fulcrum point since the entire weight of the outfit is supported by your arm. If you think about the casting stroke, the line is not primarily lifted by the leverage of an off-setting counterweight at the grip (mounted on a fulcrum), but by the action of you arm in an upward and rearward motion. The less resistance to your arm (i.e., lighter overall weight) the easier it will be to cast (and the longer you will be able to cast without fatigue).

Leverage can be improved more by using an ergonomically designed grip (most fly rod grips are too small), but that is another discussion.

Again, these are my opinions based on my research and understanding of physics. I was NOT a math major in school! LOL


Buzz

Heavier reels will soften the action of the rod a bit and lighter reels will stiffen it a bit. I have no idea why. Put a 7wt reel on your 4wt and you'll see what I mean. The same is true if you move your hand back or forward on the grip. Moving it forward will soften the action and back will stiffen it. Spey guys often times will adjust their hand placement depending on how they're fishing. I've also heard the Marinaro theory that Buzz mentioned. I once balanced my rod and reel on my finger and then stripped ALL the line off and balanced it on my finger again. The difference in balance points was about 1/4 inch. That was with a 6wt. So Marinaro's theory is correct but I don't know if you would even be able to feel a 1/4 inch change in balance points during your cast. What I've never understood about balance points is why do we want our rod and reel to balance in the first place??? When casting, the rod is more or less between the 10-2 position throughout the cast so what does having a rod and reel that balance in the horizontal position supposedly do anyway??? The rod is closer to vertical then horizontal most of the time during the cast. I go with the lightest reel possible. The lighter the better. A reel can never be too light in my book. The reel and line make up most of the weight of an outfit and since the difference in rod weight from brand to brand is usually only a fraction of an ounce you can make your outfit noticeable lighter by addressing the weight of the reel.

Say what???? Perhaps the added weight slows you down, but it has NO effect on the action of the rod.

I would agree, Charlie, but I don't doubt what Shawn said. I think it is a function of the extra weight that does exactly what you said. Slowing down your cast is exactly what you do when you want a softer presentation with any rod. The extra weight simply does it unintentionally, with the added nuisance of wearing your arm out too. It would give you the PERCEPTION of a softer/slower action.


Buzz

Laughs....
Lemme rephrase this a little. A heavier reel will cause the rod to flex deeper and a lighter reel will result in less flex. Charlie, you and Buzz should try what I mentioned if you think that reel weight doesn't effect where the rod flexes. Doesn't have anything to do with slowing me down. Nothing can slow ME down! Put a heavier reel on your rod and see for yourself.

A heavier reel will slow down the "stop" at the end of the casting stroke, since at that moment the heavier reel will try to continue pivoting the rod. That is how I understood it when told by a casting instructor. The balance idea is out of whack since you are accelerating 30 feet or so of line when you cast.

Well Shawn: I tested your theory: "Lemme rephrase this a little. A heavier reel will cause the rod to flex deeper and a lighter reel will result in less flex."...doesn't fly.

What I did was set up my video camera and put an Albright Large Arbor#IV (12 Wt) reel on my three, four and five weight rods and took movies as I did casting strokes. I then did the same with a very light 3 wt reel. Absolute NO difference in the amount of flex in the rods. However, when I put that 12 wt line on the 3 wt it definitely flexed deeper into the blank and it did with the 3wt Rio......

Charlie, it's actually not my theory. I've seen it discussed on other BB's and even had conversations with folks about it. You shouldn't need to film yourself casting, the difference is easy to feel, especially with softer rods. BTW, I bet that 12wt line was thicker then the 3wt blank!

It wasn't a challenge Shawn...I was just interested because I had a very hard time visualizing why a reel would make a rod flex with a normal casting stroke. Got my answer and I think it's as Buzz said. It will definitely slow down your stroke if you're not used to casting larger and heavier equipment and it does also definitely overpower the rod, but the actual fact is the flex is a perception....I would equate it to a pilot flying on instruments only when his eyes are telling him one thing and his posterior another.